I have come to a conclusion.
Like it or not, love it or hate it, the single most influential piece of popular music written in the past 5 years is (drumroll please!)
Pirates of the Caribbean.
Now I know you're thinking, "Herr, that can't possibly be true, can it?"
Yes, Bambi, it's true.
I've done a painstaking amount of passive research on the subject. Watch any broadcast sporting event, sports show, reality tv or anything else that requires energetic music and you'll discover it's being ripped off; most of the time not so lovingly.
For the record I like the Pirates of the Caribbean films and their music.
17 comments:
I say, the more the merrier. I can't WAIT for the release of the third film and its score!! I heard a rumor about possible further Pirates movies, but we'll see. I personally like the idea of these movies following the Matrix formula, but hey, as long as they're good... (or at least consistent) keep 'em coming. And I'm sure the scores will all be great, too! I mean, it's not like there's a shortage of Media Ventures composers to take on the assignment of Hans and Klaus get too busy to score Pirates of the Caribbean 6: Mermaid Titty Orgy.
I am reminded, for some reason, of all those non-film score fans who complain that film composers (especially HZ) never "develop" their themes but simply cut and paste them wholesale.
But if you listen to Dead Man's Chest with even the most superficialest of causal aural skills, you will hear that the entire album is a reward for those who know the first one and want to continue a musical journey.
The same goes for The Bourne Supremacy.
God I love the unappreciated depth of film music!!
okay. let's start a list of all films with the "pirates" motiv, or any variation thereof.
i'll start with an easy one....
Gladiator - particularly the battle cue.
Yeah but, I'm not sure Gladiator can really count since it came out three years before POTC. One would have to argue that the earlier film influenced the later. But still an interesting idea...let's see...
...Well actually, you'll have to narrow it down a little further Reed. Are you refering to the motif for the "good" pirates, the motif for the "bad" pirates, "Jack's Theme", the "love" themes? And if you think about it, a Media Ventures composer has scored every (or nearly so) Jerry Bruckheimer produced film ever so in a sense they are all somewhat derivative of each other. It's that now classic argument that all the MV guys compose in variations to the same theme in d-minor.
I think at this point it's difficult to put a finger on specific films/media outlets that reference/borrow/steal/shame the thematic material from the Pirates films - as they are still new and fresh. As far as Hans' ability (or arguably lack thereof) to develop thematic material, I would, in general, agree with Tim that the Dead Man's Chest music is for the most part a "development" of Black Pearl. To me though, it has the same effect as The Phantom Menace did with the Original Trilogy, or a James Bond film. The themes you know and love just sort of pop up when something great happens, but the rest is essentially "new" material.
It's not much of a stretch to call DMC developed though seeing as how it's now widely known that all of the original thematic material came from Hans and Badelt just sort of composed around it...with the usual committee of assistance. Of course, since it was a last minute Hail Mary scramble to throw a score together after Silvestri was fired, who can blame them for their usual "team" effort. It was refreshing to not see 34 additional music credits in the end creds of DMC! I do quite enjoy the new material for the film, and also cannot wait for At World's End. But I think we can all admit that the Dead Man's Chest album was one of the sorriest excuses for a score album posing as a pop album ever! That thing was just shitty...shitty, shitty, shitty!
After I gave my Black Hawk Down presentation a couple years ago, this one snide bitch in particular expectedly made the usual sarcastic comparison of the syncopated tribal war theme with the, as you say, "bad pirate" motif of The Curse of the Black Pearl. At least she had the tact to wait until after class to be a bitch about it.
But yes, there are multiple themes that are pervasive in the media today. I did notice the MV Superbowl music, but it didn't evoke swashbuckling for me. MV influencing sports programs is nothing new. People used to complain it was Crimson Tide, then it became The Rock, then Armageddon. The many faces of testosterone. Pirates is just the new thing. In another six years, it will probably be Muppets do the Middle East. I don't know.
There seems to be a lot of love-hate going on here. I'm not sure why we're calling it "Pop" music, either. I mean, it's not exactly Maurice Ravel, but Pop? Aren't we being a little cynical?
I'm certainly against any cynicism because this music has always meant so much to me personally. But I'm also against looking at it with rose-coloured glasses and trying to make it into something it isn't.
I don't think we can call it 'pop' music but I also don't think we can compare it to anything in the classical world. Really it has more in common with '80s rock music and some of the more muscular big-band stuff made famous in the '60s and '70s by the likes of Stan Kenton, Mel Lewis, Duke Ellington and Maynard Ferguson (though the corollation may not necessarily be immediately transparent) than it does with 'traditional' orchestral film music like Erich Korngold, Miklos Rozsa, David Raksin and Bernard Herrmann (though Herrmann is still a lot closer to contemporary film music than the others).
More than anything it has to be considered a hybridization/synthesis of these things and much much more. It has its own music with its own language, traditions and gestures. In many respects I've often thought of film music, even with its compositional limitations as some of the most 'inclusive' music being written because, essentially, anything goes so long as it works in the context of the film.
As far as Pirates of the Caribbean is concerned I wish to submit that I actually think the germinal idea for the main theme for Pirates seems to go back to 1997's The Pacemeaker, I mean...The Peacemaker. Certainly Backdraft, Crimson Tide and The Rock set the tone for what was to come but I think it started to congeal with The Peacemaker.
True, and the cue from Drop Zone that was undeniably the inspiration for part of Pirates--I mean, it was even used in the trailer!!
The thing about Pirates of the Caribbean is, a lot of people overlook the appropriate influences of music from that time and place. The shanty, the one that is very much akin to Shearmer's music from The Count of Moneto Cristo. It bugs me that the layperson seems to only associate Pirates music with the hard rock aspect. Even the duelling music at the beginning, at its heaviest (see tracks 3 and 4), still sounds folksy. Appropriately so.
Also, just to cover my ass, I feel the need to say that I never look at anything with rose-colored (drop the "u"... you're American!)glasses. Never. I just happen to be a very forgiving listener. Very rare among composers, in my experience. Shit, I even listened to the soundtrack to Final Fantasy IX on my iPod at work today. Just because I rant about overrated avante-garde composers doesn't mean I'm biased in any way against them, either. Film music is just my cup of tea. Just throwing that out there. For a composer, I am a very forgiving listener, truly willing to listen to anything.
And now, if it weren't so damn cold outside, I would roll down the windows of my car and blast some Pirates. All this talk is getting me hot for some swashbuckling...
DAMN it, I wish this post was on MY wall instead... these are some good comments.
You know, there's something else to consider. Media Ventures put out a series of commercially license-able CD's called The Director's Cut which basically amounted to stock compilations by all their composers with varying styles of music for varying genres of film. There was a "horror" CD, and an "action" CD, and an "epic" CD, and an "adventure" CD, and even a "romance/romantic comedy" themed CD. They could be purchased by the various media corporations and film production companies for use in whatever format they saw fit. It's possible all these Pirates imitations are from these CD's: i.e. - They're ripping themselves off from something one of them thought up a few years ago! Does that in some way constitute Karmic Retribution?!
There seems to be a thought amongst our (read: composers - not just this blog) community that the folks at MV (or whatever the hell they're calling themselves now) are destroying film music. I generally agree, but not for the reasons a lot of other people agree on. First of all allow me to clarify that I do in fact quite enjoy a great deal of the music from Hans and the boys. It seems a majority of the naysayers on this subject lean towards the "They're a bunch of rock stars trying to compose orchestral music - and it's crap and it's destroying music in Hollywood" mentality. The fundamental idea of this is true: Many of these guys are, in fact, former rock musicians. But I say anyone who is able to compose orchestral music, regardless of their background, is entitled to do so and should be left alone in that regard.
This kind of film music is creating a downward spiral in the industry...but not because of who they are or where they come from. Point of fact, if anyone is to blame, it's the producers. The Bruckheimer's of the world are the ones who want "rock-symphony" scores, the MV guys are merely offering a service, catering to a demand. Problem is, the style, in general, is just plain lazy composing. Brad I know you and I both have seen sketches/scores of theirs and can safely say that generally it's some of the simplest, thinly orchestrated music out there. Sure, even John Williams regurlarly employs tutti strings for extended passages, but it's what he does with the rest of the orchestra during those times that makes the music dense and incredible.
At this point I suppose I should apolgize a little. I know it sounds like I'm going on some kind of "I Hate Hans" diatribe, but really I'm not. I love a lot of what these guys do, particularly Hans (when he's got his A-game going), John Powell, Harry G-W, and Jablonsky. It's no secret I'm a total Metal-head, so the idea of rock-orchestra appeals to me greatly. The Metallica S&M album is one of my favorite CD's ever. And the E.S. Posthumous Unearthed cd still rocks my socks off. I just wish there was some way these folks could reconcile between deep, fulfilling composition and their drum-loop machine. Find a happy middle-ground somewhere that everyone could latch on to. I certainly have no right to begrudge them their stylistic choices or rip on them at all really. They're working, successful composers - what have I done lately? They've got some really high-profile projects slated for this year. You've got Pirates 3. Powell I imagine will be doing Shrek again (nothing new there though). I'm really looking forward to Jablonsky's Transformers score. And then...there's Hans - and The Simpsons movie. I still say that was a real, genuine misstep, it should have been given either to Alf Clausen, or Danny Elfman...but the decision's made, no going back now.
Having said all this, I really want to find some time to get into my basement and crank out some heavy, drum-looped "action" music. If nothing else, it's a great way to pad a demo reel. Brad, you want in...maybe you can help me finish the "Arabesque" thing I started? Sorry also if this was incoherrent, the monkey's sick and I've got my mind on other things!
By the way, I've really been enjoying this...well, erm, "conversation". This has to be one of the most intellectually stimulating things I've done in a least a year! Keep going all...Reed, jump in anytime!
I'm almost emotional here...
Well, you certainly have good points. If I may reminisce for the sake of illustrating a point further...
Back at Truman, Brad usd to give me shit for liking Trevor Rabin (Ruh-BEEEN?) scores. I saw no reason to be ashamed of that (although, truth be told, it's his collaborations with HG-W that are good....hmm coincidence? I think not). The reason is, to come back to what you say about rock-orchestra, the genre has its place. That place is ACTION MOVIES. I know as well as anyone how simple some of these scores are. And I've seen reductions of all kinds of scores, too. It doesn't have to be dense to be good. Look at Arvo Part.
Is it "lazy" composing? Probably.
The beauty of MV is not in its simplicity, but its mixing. They get to play with the fancy toys, and their music sounds that much better for it. Media Ventures spends half their income on developing more cutting-edge samples. It's a business. Nobody at MV has any illusions about the ingenuity or cultural sophistication/importance of their music. In an interview a few years ago, Harry Gregson-Williams commented that he doesn't understand how people can just listen to a CD of film music (although he was quick to add that he's glad they do).
Wait a second. Where was I? I took a wrong turn...
Yes. You should not be self-conscious about admitting you like this music just because it is what it is. By the same token, you should not deride someone because they give said music a compliment. It's just another genre of film music, and it has its place and demand.
I don't think it's "ruining" Hollywood music, either. Any director or producer can step in at any time and say, "You know, this movie needs a more dignified sound with an acoustic intensity... it's time we found someone to replace Jerry Goldsmith."
YOU LIKE TREVOR RABIN?!! God what a hack! I say that with the wryest of smirks on my face seeing as I have Armageddon, Con Air, National Treasure, The One, and The 6th Day all sitting at home in my CD collection and enjoy them all very much!
Here's the rub, Hollywood action movie producers are getting just as lazy as the composers they're hiring to score their movies. Let me clarify in saying that the job of any blockbuster movie producer is far from easy. Let's just leave it at that they are basically money men...big-time, hardcore money men, but money men nonetheless. They're completely disinterested in the artistic merit of the movies they are making any more. I offer Die Hard as a prime example of one of the last big action movies with genuine artistic sensibilities. Like everything else nowadays, the almighty dollar has ruined them. Sure, all it would take is for the Bruckheimer's and Silver's of the world to say they wanted music with a little more substance, but they won't. Action movies have become a 2 hour music video in their eyes.
I don't like to think I'm self-conscious about liking MV music (did I come across that way? oh damn!), but I will call a spade a spade. It's fun, energetic music that's great for pumping you up. But at the end of the day, I find the more complex composers much more intellectually and aesthetically stimulating, and more importantly, satisfying. I will agree hands down with one thing, MV is a high-quality production machine. It's hard to beat the production quality of their work.
To continue to argue the point, for further proof that MV is ruining film music, I offer a paraphrase of one of the last things Basil Poledouris offered on the subject prior to his death. He said that his self-imposed retirement was a result of, essentially, the industry not having much use for composers like him any more. Cancer be damned, look at his output (or rather, lack thereof) from the last few years. The last major project he had was The Touch - an Asian film! A majority of Johnny's output lately has been a result of his long-standing collaborators. Silvestri is a key example, particularly to the original subject of this post. He was fired from Pirates to be replaced by Klaus Badelt (yechh!). Luckily Hans provided most of the motivic material. And Silvestri's hardly completed a score in the last 4 years that he hasn't been fired from (and as humorous as it is to say, I doubt it's entirely because he's been busy with the vineyard!). And there will never be another Jerry!
Well, I'm not so sure Alan Silvestri would have been an improvement over Klaus.
I certainly didn't mean to imply that Jerry Goldsmith can ever be replaced. I just meant that his action/adventure sound needs to be explored more, instead of all the big-dollar guys saying, "Oh, and see if you can get one of those Zimmer guys to do the music... I want flashy eye and ear candy to fill the seats."
In that regard, Hollywood has indeed "ruined" film music by seeking a homogenous sound. Several people have imitated Goldsmith, but perhaps not recently enough to constitute a trend. That needs to change. I guess scores like U-571 and Timeline are good examples of what I'm talking about--that Goldsmithian, more traditional, entirely-acoustic sound that gets the job done in a very different way than Media Ventures.
Aside:
I think we should have a Zimmer Fan Coming-Out Parade. And anyone who looks down their noses at us for admitting we own a copy of the score to Dead Man's Chest should have their pubic hair ripped out by an angry German transexual midget.
you guys write a lot. actually i've been so goddam busy with midterms i forgot about this post.
so i pretty much can agree with both sides of the coin that you lads are flipping.
my personal view on MV is although it doesn't always have the artistic integrity we long for, i would, in less than a heartbeat, clean any of their trashbins for the chance to write a note with/for them., of course i'd rather sell my soul (or just a portion) to work with Williams.
i'm finding out very fast that academic composition is maybe not the avenue that would best suit my endevours.
although the MV chaps' music may be simple or not very imaginative in its orchestration, what kind of time do they have to whip out their scores? seriously, how many projects does HZ have his baton in at once? the reason he wsan't the main score credit for Pirates I was because his contract with the Last Samurai wouldn't allow him to.
as far as rocker = composer danny elfman is still my hero. i mean...he was commissioned to write an orchestral work (granted it could substitue itself as a film score).
i don't know where i was going with that, but i have a lot of learning ahead of me yet.
time to go back to my string quartet (which probably still isn't modern enough for my prof's taste.)
Hmmm...So much to cover. I can't possibly get to it all. Well I could but I'm not going to. My blog, I'm lazy and I'm tired.
Yes. I did give Tim a lot of crap about Trevor Rabin (yes…rah-been, he’s South African). I do, in fact, think his music is crap. This isn’t a recent development (Owner of a lonely heart, anyone?). If I’m going to reach for a MV score it will, in all likelihood, be by Hans Zimmer, Harry Gregson-Williams or John Powell.
I don’t dislike the aforementioned (except Rabin). As a matter of fact I think it’s interesting that Hans Zimmer burst on the scene with a “style” that was, for it’s time, fresh and new. Many rockers had tried unsuccessfully to apply their craft to the peculiarities of film music composition and Hans was basically the first to marry a 1980s pop sensibility to traditional Hollywood orchestral scoring and make it work. It worked so well, in fact, that that sound became de rigueur and Hans, being Hans, stretched out with his feelings and used the Force (or was it just the Jedi mind trick?) to conjure a new sound sensibility that was still based largely in the world he came from (With a little Bach thrown in for spice. Nothing wrong with Bach!). This happened with the trio of The Peacemaker, The Prince of Egypt and The Thin Red Line. Meantime Danny Elfman was coming along developing his own quite distinctive sound and Johnny and Jerry continued doing what they did best. As a matter of fact I’ve always felt that Jerry’s score for The 13th Warrior was a kind of thumbing of the nose to Media Ventures saying “I can write a Euro-trash score, too, and do it better than most of you Europeans!”
That’s right. I said it. Euro-trash.
And no, that doesn't mean I don't like it. We wouldn't still be having this discussion if I didn't like (or would we?). I just think that so many people think it's the end-all, be-all to film music this days and all the while the talent pool is getting shallower and shallower. Mainstream Hollywood is selling us a junk car at twice the price.
Isn’t it interesting, though, that this has turned largely toward a discussion about how homogeneous Hollywood film music has largely become because of the big producers? It’s also interesting that Tim brings up Jerry Goldsmith because that is something I personally have aspired to in the past. I enjoy the way he employed both asymmetric meter, to keep one off balance in an action scene, and the gradual addition of textural layers over time, which makes for a nifty (and film-form ready) formal elaboration device, especially in a long scene like “The Hijacking” from Air Force One or the hunting montage from The Edge (which is one of my absolute favourite Goldsmith scores. And what about Ennio Morricone. This guy wrote some of the most original music put to celluloid (if nothign else from a psychological standpoint) and nobody wants to imitate that film/music model? Really?
I leave you with this: If I can call you Betty, then Betty when you call me you can call me Jerry!
Does anyone else have a raging boner right now?
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